Hi, this is not STH related but could really use some advice from more experienced web designer.
I’ve got a client, who no longer wants me to handle her site (long story) and has hired another ‘pro’ designer to take it on. I’m being bombarded with (quite patronising) emails from this guy who wants the DNS records IP addresses of my web hosting account. I’ve changed the IPS tag on the server for this domain to his web hosting (123-Reg) and sent him the auhtorisation code for him to transfer the domain. As far as I’m concerned - job done, and the rest is now up to him.
However he is insisting that I provide the IP address for my web hosting account and DNS records. I’m not really sure why this is all neccessary. Is this normal? Should I be giving out that kind of info to someone I don’t know at all?
I’m not exactly clear here, but usually there are 2 issues when someone else takes over the ongoing development of a site.
Domain ownership needs to be established and that person should be able to access the DNS records that are setup for the domain to point to any new server.
Server responsibility including web hosting, security and usually email.
If you are not involved in either, going forward, then they are not your responsibility.
If you own the domain you should sell it to the old site owner, at an agreed price you accept and have no further involvement.
If you are currently providing the hosting then either end that hosting now and inform the site owner, or end the hosting at the end of the hosting period, at which point the new developer can setup new hosting, and pass that responsibility to the new developer.
The sinkhole of support that you don’t want to get drawn into here, is someone else making changes to your current site, because you will get blamed if issues arise or if there are email or security issues.
So in summary I would suggest for your sake and the clients sake, a complete break at a certain date agreed with the client.
thanks for you help. I think he wants to host the site with his 123-REG account and use the DNS records to initially point the domain to the existing files I have on my IONOS hosting account. Then when he has his site ready he’ll change the DNS records to point to his new project. He says hes not planning to launch the new site until early March. The only trouble is that because I have changed the IPS to 123-REG (as he requested) I no longer have access to the DNS records for this domain - its totally gone from my control panel. So he now wants the IP address for my web hosting account. Would this give him access to any site on my account? I’ve got about 20 -30 sites so I don’t want to give anyone that kind of access. This is all new for me as usually I just build a site in rapidweaver and upload it. Any advice much appreciated.
Giving him the IP of your server isn’t a security risk, as such. This info is freely available to anyone by running a simple text on a domain.
That said, I can’t really work out why he wants it. if I’m understanding what is happening correctly. Which is…
You have a domain registered for a client with your own registrar account, and it points to the website you made which is hosted on your server.
A new web guy is taking over and wanted to take control of the domain in his 123-reg registrar account, so (assuming it’s a .co.uk not .com) you exchanged the tags, he placed the order for it, did the jiggery-pokery stuff you have to do, and he now has the domain.
If that’s correct, as you say, that’s it. You no longer have control over the domain.
It’s possible (I’ve had this happen) that the connection between the domain name and server has been scrambled in the handover of the domain, so he wants the nameserver and DNS data to connect it. He doesn’t need the IP address.
In my experience, many MANY of the new “web designers” who have come on the scene in the last few years understand very little about domains and their management. They can make pretty sites, but the rest they’re pretty clueless about. So it’s entirely possible he’s asking for your IP address but really needs summit else; DNS and/or nameservers.
Hi @TemplateRepo - thats pretty much exactly whats happened. I can’t give him the DNS data as IONOS has transferred the domain to 123-Reg as intructed (by him). I guess I fall into the category of desigers who don’t know much about domains and management. But then I’m not pretending to - this guy is giving it the large one with ‘30 years experience and 500+ websites under his belt’ . We’ve now hit an empasse though as the domain has a 404 page. I cant give him the DNS records he wants because the site has now been transferred. Meanwhile the client has nothing on her domain and thinks its all my fault.
Has the site been moved to his server, or is it still on your server?
(I know bugger all about it too, but I employ someone who does!)
EDIT: Oh, and actually, he does need the IP!
I’ve just looked at the form we send out to new clients who manage their own domains, so they can update the DNS, and it’s lots of MX, and A and TXT/SPF records, many of which point to the IP address of my server.
So ya, he does need it. And most likely knows more about it and both you and me!
Everything should be ok unless there is something I’m missing here, with your hosting and domain being indepenedent of each other, you are hosting the website and he/she has control of the domain. The IP/name address of your server/hosting company just allows them to point the domain in the new account to your server/hosting company to the space where you have the current website hosted. Giving that away isn’t a security risk as it is just the IP address, it’s public anyway. These situations should be pleasent and amicable, I always approach anything like this at either end I’m at of these situations, however if you have somebody being condescending towards you whilst asking a big favour of you, with you continuing to host the webfiles for a month whilst they build the new website I would say “On your bike vicar!” to them. I would say these are the sceanrios you face 1) Do somebody the favour of hosting their website whilst the new developer builds a new site. 2) Continue hosting as in number 1 for a fee 3) Delete all files off the server as this is no longer your project anymore 3) Delete all files off the server as in point 3 and zip up the webfiles and send them on for them to host.
What I would say is don’t go giving your RW file as that is your devvelopment file, and how you have done that is your skillset, when you build a website for somebody the end published website is the job, unless you have a special agreement in place. Also if you have auto backup of the RW projectt file on the server don’t include that in the webfiles (RW zips the project up and uploads to server so can be retrieved in the event of data loss if you have this feature activated).
All of this depends on how nice you want to be, I would say somebody that wants you to be generous and ask a favour needs to change their approach in asking. Giving out the servers IP address/hosting name isn’t a security bother, it’s just the unique name/address the internet knows where to look for the website, the thing we point our domains at so they ‘know where to look’.
It’s a shame when people in ‘techie’ circles get condescending.
Almost everything has been said what’s to say about it 😃
One thing I like to add is that you’ve given them the authorization codes, so they should be able to move the domain name. Then they should be able to change the DNS servers and there they can point it to an IP address of a server in their control. The only reason I can think of is that nobody (except you) has a backup of the website. As the domain name isn’t pointing to your designed site, they can’t get to the data as when it was still maintained by you, so they need an IP address. If they have your IP address then they (hope they) are able to perform a site grab, thus getting all the pages’ raw HTML, CSS, JavaScript and media files. If you used Cloudflare as DNS, they never were able to find the old IP address. I’d say to hell with them 🖕 (or better go for TopHat’s “get paid” option).
Thanks everyone for your sound advice and good points. I just spoke to someone at IONOS and they said as far as they’re concerned the domain has successfully transferred to the new guy’s hosting account at 123-REG. Therefore, its not my/their problem any more, which confirm’s what you’ve all said. The simple solution IONOS propose is that he change the IPS tag back to IONOS - i continue to host the site and show the old content. Then once hes ready to upload his new website - we transfer the domain back to him again. This makes sense. Will see what he says. Thanks again. I appreciate the support as much as anything else.
I would encourage you to talk to the client. Agree with the client on what they want to happen and also explain the situation about the domain transfer. Domain transfers can take notoriously long, and DNS changes over 72 hours to propagate.
Experience tells me that even with clients who move on, you want to keep the relationship good wherever possible. You can also send the client a zip of the website. People always think the grass is greener somewhere else, only to find it isn’t. Keeping a good relationship allows them to return if things do not work out.
Edit
The reason for talking to the client is that incompetent developers can make mistakes which they then blame on the old developer.
Reading svsmalius’ comment makes me reconsider my “to hell with them”, as I remember what the famous management guru Peter Drucker said: “ The purpose of a business is to create and keep a customer.’” Though there’s a caveat pointed out by another guru, probably unknown to you all but still a wise man: my dad. He said: “The customer is king, provided he behaves like a king.” And then there’s “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” A citation ascribed to Mark Twain (incorrectly attributed to Mark Twain but instead part of a large diverse family of statements that began to appear by 1878.). We’re often jumping the gun without knowing the full story, so thank you @svsmailus for pointing that out. You too are a wise person.🎩
Whilst that’s good advice, based on the information specific to this situation, the client has already hired someone else and that person doesn’t seem to be up to the job.
Therefore my advice remains tha same that the new developer should ask for or purchase the information they need in odrder to build and serve the new site.
@Jamie Don’t allow them near your site and invoice the client now, for any future actions required. You will get blamed for everything that goes wrong. If they stupidly moved a domain before their server was ready, then that’s an issue for them to sort out IMHO. No experienced web developer would do it this way this. Essentially you setup a working web site and the new developer has made changes beyond your control, that break the current site and unless you are being paid to sort this out, it is not your problem.
If they still persist in demanding anything, then delete the server contents and let the new developer get his new design live ASAP.
I have had this happen a few times when friends or family members offer the client to take over their web site. It always ends in tears and the domain/server side can involve a lot of time.
Thanks all for the solid advice and good natured discussion. In the end, the new designer couldn’t do whatever it was he was trying to do - he put it down to insufficient knowledge of my hosting platform. The client was left with no site and a 404 message - so he transferred it back to me. I’ve put the site back up and put everything back how it was before. I’ve agreed to continue to handle the site, until he has the new site finished and is ready to launch. I felt bad for the client as I’ve known her for years. I may not be the big expert, but I try to do my best for the client and theres no way i’d have left her hanging with no site showing even for a couple of hours, let alone a couple of days. I’ll be interested to see if the new site he produces is any good.
When I’ve been on the other side of this, I’ve waited until I have the new site ready - then request the transfer and upload the new content straight away.
Big lesson though in establishing boundries when someone new comes along and keeping control until they are actually able to take over the site properly. Thanks again for all your help.
You might find it helpful to write down a process from your experience of this for the future while it’s fresh in your mind.
My experience is that the problem is almost always to do with transferring the domain. People underestimate how long that can take. I’ve done this numerous times and you have to get the setup right on the new host before you move domains. You really want the NS records putting to the new host before you move the domain.
I moved hosting companies in January and found a further issue that their default DNS, TXT and MX records for all my domains needed to be deleted to make my sites work. I had to set the records to how I set them for my old host and delete the default ones from my new host. It wasn’t onerous, but you did need to know what you’re doing. Having done this for over 20 years has certainly helped me to understand DNS.